My Diesel Build (evil laugh here :D) - Mazdatruckin.com Truck Forum and Tech Site

EmJay · #1 (**permalink**) 04-15-2009, 08:28 PM

Well, me and Ken were joking around about it in the mitsu thread, I'll come out with it now officially since I have the block in my possession. I got extremely lucky yesterday when I was out looking for a first gen head for K6. Sadly, the 84 there didn't have it. However I went ahead and visited the one 84 escort that they had, figuring that I was gonna strike out. Here's what I saw.

after some wrenching, and 2 days worth of work (tools stolen in between and had to return with backup set......)

Now Featuring the 1995 Honda Civic LX, with the added feature of Rear Passenger Diesel Power

Now here's the pretty block at home on my engine hoist,

ugly stock exhaust, although that is one huge äss oil filter/cooler

A sight of my future

It's gonna go in here

An interesting note, also an annoying road block. Timing marks are on the flywheel.....

the annoying reason why it's gonna be a road block. Escort clutch/pp on the left, B2000 clutch/pp on the right.

My only casualty. That and the small scratch on the passenger fender. My trunk was too small.

EmJay · #2 (**permalink**) 04-15-2009, 08:41 PM

OK now my first observation notes:

The diameter of the splines on the escort clutch is much smaller than that of the B series splines, therefore I can not use the clutch for the escort. Also, since the diesel flywheel is 8 lug and the B2000 flywheel is 6 lug, I can not just simply swap the flywheel.

another annoying fact is that the front crank pulley looks similar to that of the probe pulley, held down with allen bolts instead of regular bolts.

I don't know exactly how much clearance I'm gonna have between the firewall and the end of the intake manifold. and this is a one piece, so i can't just simply flip the plenum.

motor mounts should be the same, I took a quick glance and I should be able to keep all the brackets stock without incident. Only after a complete teardown of the sides would I know this for a fact, but it's of little concern to me at this moment.

Starter, the one that was in the escort was considerably bigger than that of the one for the gas engines. Since the diesel engine has a higher compression ratio (somewhere around the 20:1 range I believe) I may need a stronger starter.

another annoying fact is that the original timing marks are on the stock flywheel for the RF. #1, I don't want that clunker of a flywheel if I can help it. #2 is that how would I be able to check it out if the transmission is compeltely covering it? There is no way in hell that I want to cut open the trans just so I can see the timing mark and arrow. If I remember correctly, the KIA FE3 has an 8 bolt flywheel, it should work the same. Otherwise it's expensive *** machine shop charges to modify my current flywheel.

A harder issue, Xulf and Dealwithit, any help here would be nice. someone beat me to the injection pump, so I don't have one. The lines for such are also missing and I have no clue if these are included or not.

An interesting issue, my tachometer. The stock is driven by the coil, of which a diesel doesn't use. Dealwithit mentioned that he got one that uses a sensor on the crank and/or flywheel (sorry dude been up too long at the JY.)

Now the starter relay for the glowplugs, I'd really need to see how the stock setup went so that I can mimic something along those lines. I've thought about it for a while now and was thinking that I might be able to put some sort of a delay shutoff timer onto the starter solenoid so that they stay on for a few seconds longer after the engine starts up. OR just wire a relay to the starter solenoid and have a thicker gauge power wire running to the glowplugs. That's all that I got, I need to shower up and get ready for work.

oh, ONE MORE THING

This is my summer project, meaning that I don't have any plans (or the money) of having this thing running by next week. I am going to try to arrange my schedule so that I can go visit K6 when I am ready to do the rebuild aspect of this project. And, as you can guess, there is going to be a huge addition to the tech section afterward.

Roadblock Checklist
Flywheel. Issue covered page 2, solution page 14
Alternator mounting bracket, Issue covered page 2, solution pending
Exhaust rerouting. Issue not yet covered, solution page 12
Fuel Tank relocation. not an issue at all. just swapped sending units
Locating an injector pump, solved and delivered.
Oil Filter cooler/heater, issue covered page 2, solution page 14
Oil and coolant flow diagrams, issue not yet covered, solution pending
fuel filter housing, issue not yet covered, solution pending
priming system, issue covered page 2, solution pending.
Glow Plug wiring, issue covered page 1, solution pending. (recommendations being considered.)
Stronger starter for higher compression engine. Issue covered page 2, solution pending (further research on auto trans starter)

Kyrasis6 · #3 (**permalink**) 04-15-2009, 11:14 PM

At the current time it may be more practicle for me to visit you, I have no clue where I'll be living in 2 months.

Racer X · #4 (**permalink**) 04-15-2009, 11:18 PM

Nice find!I know where a whole car sits if I get bored of the brap brap brap my truck makes.

dealwithit · #5 (**permalink**) 04-16-2009, 05:34 AM

looking good man, i say go back and get that starter, a new one is gonna be a fortune probably. as for the flywheel i would get a kia one, should be good that way, oh and don't wave off all that weight so quickly, you'll get shaken to bits with out that weight to dampen the shaft.

as far as the glowplugs like i said before just put it on a push button to a relay. you need to heat them for 10seconds before turning the engine over in the morning. you can't just get them to come on while cranking, you'll burn out your starter waiting for them to heat.

not sure what to do about the thermostat housing tho?

for the intake i would make a plate to bolt over the opening, then cut a hole in the back and get a piece of aluminum tube welded on. dont need a throttle anymore

as for the clutch, if you can't end up finding a kia flywheel, im sure the machining wouldn't be to much to move the dowel pins out and redo the bolt holes. heck im getting a whole new piece made, not cheap, but not crazy expensive.

good to see you back on the project

i hope an injector pump and lines shows up soon

Kyrasis6 · #6 (**permalink**) 04-16-2009, 07:28 AM

I thought Kia futzed with the crank and the bolt pattern on the flywheel was different?

Now we need creepy to make you a sticker that says "Got Propane?"

EmJay · #7 (**permalink**) 04-16-2009, 07:34 AM

i've got a design already made with creepy

dealwithit · #8 (**permalink**) 04-16-2009, 07:35 AM

im sure ill be after one of those too

EmJay · #9 (**permalink**) 04-16-2009, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dealwithit

looking good man, i say go back and get that starter, a new one is gonna be a fortune probably. as for the flywheel i would get a kia one, should be good that way, oh and don't wave off all that weight so quickly, you'll get shaken to bits with out that weight to dampen the shaft.

I'm really hoping that a Kia one will owrk. My biggest concern with using the B2000 trans on the RF flywheel is that the RF flywheel is a good bit thicker. The clutch sits in further on the B2000 flywheel, wouldn't that cause issues with the pressure plate, throwout bearing etc having it sit an inch further into the transmission? Maybe I could get that flywheel hollowed out and machined down more to the dimensions of the B2000 flywheel.
Also for the starter, I'm not sure that it's still good, and even if it is, how the heck would I get it to fit onto the truck trans? it's a great deal bigger, and would get in the way of the motor mount. The Escort starter was supported in the rear and on a bracket where the truck motor mount would sit. The escort starter is unfortunately a no go. although I do need to pick up that fuel filter assembly, the primer pump is in it

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer X

Nice find!I know where a whole car sits if I get bored of the brap brap brap my truck makes.

Yes dude you should definately go for it. I could use a second set of notes to compare it to

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrasis 6

I thought Kia futzed with the crank and the bolt pattern on the flywheel was different?

They did to my knowledge which prevented the use of the b series flywheel on the kia crank. the kia crank is 8 bolt where the b series crank is 6 bolt. not if the bolt spacing is the same or not is anyone's guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dealwithit

im sure ill be after one of those too

Mine is gonna be something along the lines of BioDiesel B2000 below Mazdatruckin.com. I eventually plan on getting this thing to run off of WVO if possible, although that might be much further down the road. Might have it edited to Diesel Powered B2000 below Mazdatruckin.com. I need to fish out the email he sent with the link cuz he made it look really nice.

Well I shall post more pics as the teardown progresses.

Enjoy

(been waiting a long time to do that one

)

dealwithit · #10 (**permalink**) 04-16-2009, 05:26 PM

ok, yah if you can get the kia FW on there then i don't see why the stock mazda starter wouldn't work, just make sure the battery is big enough, and i believe the auto starter actually has a higher output rating, just need to drill the treads out of one hole, or run a bolt through with a nut on the other side?

futrao · #11 (**permalink**) 04-16-2009, 07:31 PM

nice find mj!!

EmJay · #12 (**permalink**) 04-16-2009, 08:52 PM

First off, I wish to vent how much of a PITFA it was to get the flywheel bolts off. I needed to go out and get a 12 point socket 17mm to remove them. THEN I needed to put a socket/wrench setup on the front crank to lock it in place and approx 3-4ft worth of torque on a breaker bar to break them loose. "using red locktite on flywheel bolts is saying f*** you to the next person who's gotta work on this." Quote my mentor said while I was working at Cottman. EVEN LOOSE it was a struggle for my 1/2" impact to get them off. END VENT

hmm, automatic starter with a higher output? that might be my next pull from the JY. I think that I'm gonna have the stock flywheel reworked though, I took some pictures and I'll try to explain my decision.

Overall the 2 flywheels appear to have the same thickness, it was hard to get a good shot while holding one flywheel up to each other, but from what I saw, the one from the escort is just a tad thicker. That doesn't mean that I'm going to shave down the top of the escort one, because another point that I noticed is that the escort flywheel has a bit of a deeper dish in the rear than the B2000 flywheel does.

Reason #2 as to why I am leaning towards reworking the escort flywheel is the timing marks on them. the plate that goes between the trans and the engine has a tab on top that hovers over the flywheel. Now i do note that I"m not going to be able to use the entire plate from the escort, too different of a shape for that. However the 4 upper bolt holes line up with each other (natrually

) so I am thinking of a quick snip/weld to have them line up with each other.
That picture also clearly shows why I would not be able to use the escort starter. The top 4 bolt holes line up, you can clearly see the difference there.

Now we move on to the driverside of the block. The truck's brackets mount on perfectally (after cleaning out 26 years of soot in the bolt holes that is.) Most of the truck holes were not used in the FWD application. It was very nice and fitting to remove the FWD motor bracket

Now the passenger side. Wish I could say the same thing. The good news is that all the bolt holes for the motor and trans mount line up perfectally. The holes are even present for the alternator mount, except for the one that's on the oil pump. The oil pump is (obviously) different between the two blocks. No holes on the side like the FE pump but 2 studs on the front. I wouldn't mind this as much, but the coolant bypass line below the water pump is ALSO in the way. SO, I gotta cut down my alternator bracket some. 2 bolts should be enough, right?

Now for some input. That big clunky oil filter/cooler. do ya think I really need one THAT BIG??? I'm thinking of scrapping the whole assembly and using the cooler that I took off of the FE block. Having it right there is going to make any exhaust modifications extremely difficult.

Dealwithit, what are you using for your fuel filter/primer setup? Are you going to use an electric fuel pump or a mechanical?

Ohm · #13 (**permalink**) 04-16-2009, 10:59 PM

Yeah I think you could probably get away with the FE oil cooler, if anything you might go with the dual core auto radiator to keep things cooler.

EmJay · #14 (**permalink**) 04-17-2009, 04:16 AM

I already have the bigger b2600 radiator ready for installation

. Need to find a thin electric fan though, probably a hayden 16 inch or somethin.

dealwithit · #15 (**permalink**) 04-17-2009, 08:33 PM

hey MJ heres an idea, i wonder if you could use the b2200 flywheel, 2 bolts should line up, weld up the other holes and get the missing 6 re drilled? as long as the bolts go in there tight, the FW should center itself on other things there so you might even be able to do it yourself? something to think about anywho

i would personally ditch the big cooler setup, just go with the basic cooler, or even just ditch it all together and just put on good filter on it. i mean its not a turbo so its not gonna get crazy hot, i'm sure that setup was more designed for those systems

my benz diesel has a mechanical fuel pump on the side of the IP with its own primer. you don't really need one, an easy way to do it actually if you have a low pressure carb electric fuel pump is just run it through a filter right before the IP. if you do run out of fuel, just pop the filter off, or even the line off the IP and make sure fuel is there. thats all you really need to do, it'll pump the air bubbles out the injectors just fine. i started my toyota diesel up with just rubber hose into a jerry can of diesel. no primer pump (didn't really work anyways) or filter. i bet when you get a new IP it'll come with a mechanical FP on the side of it.

till next time

(oh wait thats your line now!

)